Comments on: Definitions of Butch & Femme

By: Elevator Pitches for “Butch” and “Femme” | The Rhetoric of Butch and Femme Elevator Pitches for “Butch” and “Femme” | A Collaborative Study Guide

Tue, 25 Oct 2011 04:46:47 +0000

[...] to mind. I tried to find a post I read a couple of years ago and thought about a lot at the time. Found it! In it, the author and commentors struggle to find “working definitions’ of [...]

By: “Butch” and “Femme” Elevator Pitches | Conversations on the Rhetoric of Gender & Sexuality

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 23:34:56 +0000

[...] sex.) I tried to find a post I read a couple of years ago and thought about a lot at the time. Found it! In it, the author and commenters struggle to find “working definitions’ of [...]

By: Confidence, Not Caveats: Butch, Femme, And Tearing Down Stereotypes « Dear Diaspora

Sat, 03 Oct 2009 23:26:09 +0000

[...] I think it’s a real lack of intra-communal agreement about what the words even mean. For what it’s worth, my Oxford American Dictionary says: “butch, n., a mannish [...]

By: zoe

zoe — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:56:09 +0000

I was thinking about this post the other day. I understand "intentionality" is an important part of the sugarbutch journey, but I don't think it's necessary for every butch or femme (unless I'm misunderstanding the word "intentionality"). I know many butch women for whom butch was a natural presentation that they don't theorize about.

I agree that butch/femme can be used in gay male culture, and that they don't really usually apply to het relationships so my working definition would be something like:

Queer gender presentations that incorporate and reclaim aspects of traditionally masculine/feminine gender presentation and/or roles.

This modification might unintentionally exclude but:

For many people who identify with these labels, identifying is described either as freeing or coming home – butch and femme are usually identities that people grow into. It may be a choice, but at the same time, the other identity may not be a viable option for that individual.

By: Daisy

Daisy — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:56:10 +0000

I second undercover punk.

By: undercover punk

undercover punk — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:20:44 +0000

I respectfully disagree. If butch and femme are simply euphemisms for masculine and feminine behavior/appearance, what's the point? Particularly given the rather murky context of gender-queer identities, reducing the terms butch and femme to synonyms of already existing concepts doesn't seem to add anything to the conversation.

My definitions of butch and femme require both intentionality and some manner of heternormative transgression.

By: G

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:06:33 +0000

Well, keeping in mind that this is supposed to be an elevator pitch, and I've got roughly 30 seconds or so to try to enlighten whomever is asking, I'm completely on board with LeeOrLeigh's take. Sure, we can dig deep into the details, but I'm a fan of concise, clear speech (as you can tell by this rambling comment); the less you can confuse someone, the more you can educate them. And yes, I think that it can apply to anyone who is gendered (I've met people who say they are neither).

By: Daisy

Daisy — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:45:13 +0000

Alright then.

By: LeeOrLeigh

LeeOrLeigh — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:02:36 +0000

Sure, I don't see why not. There are a lot of heterosexual couples that I would describe as butch/femme, butch/butch, or femme/femme. Not necessarily the male being the butch and the female being femme either. But I think the sense of "butch"' and "femme" comes from the stereotype of traditional relationships. Butch is a noun for masculine traits, which are described as masculine because we traditionally associate them with males.

By: Daisy

Daisy — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:54:34 +0000

Actually, LeeOrLeigh, rereading your definition — wouldn't that sort of make all traditionally-gendered straight couples butch/femme (since there are no caveats about intention, reclamation, etc)?