Thanks for the questions. That's an old post you commented on, posted in August 2008, and those words and terms are relatively recent—both the use of "transmasculine" and the removal of "female-bodied" from general gender vernacular these days.

I don't think I would define "female-bodied," to answer your question, except to say that it's term that used to be used frequently in describing trans folks, but has since evolved. I don't use it anymore and I would tend to even correct people (if appropriate) when using it. I know what you mean about being assigned female at birth but not being female-bodied, and I think that's the general usage these days in terminology.

I updated the post. Sorry about the confusion, or offense.

I have some of the same trouble you have with the TransMasculine Network's definition. There are many, many people in the world who are assigned female at birth and don't feel like that's an adequate description of their gender, but who don't identify as masculine.

Also, I'm still left wondering if trans masculine includes butch women. Some definitions of the word I've seen do include butch women; some don't, leaning more towards folks who are genderqueer, genderfuck, or genderfluid; or leaning towards trans men.

I raise the butch question because if a definition of transmasculine includes butch women, then I would say butch trans women are also transmasculine — by virtue of being women and presenting as butch. Which makes that whole "assigned female at birth" qualifier problematic.

Just food & questions for thought…

–Gina

I’ve given it some thought and while I think it’s important that language around gender evolves I don’t think that this particular term is useful. I think there are several problems with it – it is easily misunderstood, but more than that, questionable in terms of inclusion, for example, MtF butch identified women, would be included under the transfeminine “umbrella”? And this is the bottom line for me: a (broad) term to describe gender based on sex at birth is problematic because it brings us right back to the binary.

So – here are the votes from this very small UK based jury – 9 in favour and 8 against.

And also, as Tobi points out, it marginalizes butch and andro trans women, and shoves femme and andro trans men between a rock and a hard place.

I think "transmasculine" has gained currency because it is cutesy and sound edgy.

I was just at the Gender Odyssey conference and some workshops were closed to “masculine” people, others were closed to “transmasculine” folks, still others were closed to “female assigned folks read as male.” All the distinctions were puzzling. It was as if they were all trying to get at the same thing, but what about folks who’s experiences overlap areas of that.

Femme trans guys are trans men, but I’ve seen them ejected from transmasculine spaces for not being masculine. Oppositely, as a butch trans woman who identifies as transmasculine, I’ve been kept out of transmasculine spaces because I wasn’t a trans guy, even though cisgender butches were welcome.

I’ve known other transfemale spectrum folks who identify as transmasculine and have been kept out of transmasculine spaces because they are “really just trans women” or because they were assigned male. Even your own definition specifies people assigned female. And the first commenter likes it specifically because it excludes transfeminine folks (presumably even if they identify as transmasculine as well)

And so it’s from this background that transmasculine appears to be used as a term that can be used to selectively eject anyone who’s level of female-ness or femininity is perceived as a threat.

[Wow, that was a whole lotta anger you just threw at me; this has not been my experience of the ways that the word "transmasculine" has been used in this community *at all.* I have witnessed it used in a community where transmisogyny and femmephobia were openly discussed and questioned. I won't claim that everyone is absolutely perfect about that all the time, myself included, but we're talking about it, we're questioning it, we're working to do better, which is part of the point. So I don't understand your claim - that "transmasculine" is not inclusive but a way to exclude, and I don't understand how it's transmisogynistic and femmephobic. If you eventually get the time, perhaps we could have a conversation about this. - ss]

so…although I am conflicted about the addition of yet another piece of terminology, I think that any step toward neutrality is good.