But I just think that speaks to how fragile all of our identities are…that I hear you talk about yours and part me thinks "sign me up!" even though I know, from experience that it won't feel genuine to me. Or that someone says we're not butch or femme enough and that makes us all prickly too. Excuse the pop psychology, but maybe we are so sensitive about our identities because they give us a sense of belonging many of us lacked as queer youth.

As a sidenote, I really don't mind at all being called Butch OR Femme (and I've been called both). Being identified either way gives me a rush because I generally take it as a way of acknowledging a public queer identity, which might be harder to cultivate outside those roles.

(And Lady Brett, I agree that building furniture has nothing to do with being femme or not. I may not identify this way, but I think I get it a little more than that.)

those of us who do id as butch or femme are expected to educate, and not take it personally, and use a disclaimer so we're all very sure that this blog that is written by one person about her own experience only reflects the thoughts an opinions of this one person based on her experience. we're supposed to just assume we will be misunderstood and are admonished not to get all worked up about it. but as soon as a "normal" person is misidentified, well, all bets are off because obviously nobody should put up with being accused of being a freak…

this is not to say i don't understand that there are varying levels of misunderstanding, some of which border on and cross over into disrespectful. we should all strive to be sensitive to other people's identities, and take corrections when they are offered, and not get snippy when someone says, "actually, i don't id that way…" but i think it is also worthwhile to do a little soul searching if your first instinct is to be horrified when someone assumes you're butch or femme when you're not. to me, it smacks of homophobia and a serious double standard.

zoe – "I would feel extremely constricted if I had to be the femme to her butch 100% of the time."

i think this goes back to adjectives vs. identity. because i identify as femme, i am femme no matter what i'm doing. to use your example, my being a femme does not mean i am always "the femme to her butch." example: the fact that i built half of me and jake's furniture never made me less femme or her less butch. it just is what it is, and i am what i am.

but, then, that's why it's complicated. and one of the reasons i don't really fault people if they get my identity "wrong."

in most cases being misperceived doesn't make me feel what sinclair mentioned: "you don’t see me as I really am." it simply makes me feel that "you don't see me as i see myself," which is fine – i am not good at binaries so there are very few cases in which i would claim one of us has to be right and the other wrong (exceptions being misperceptions of my very core values, because those are what everything about me is based upon). (hence the quotes on wrong above.)

a sort of aside: i think it's fascinating and awesome when people tell me who/what/how they percieve me to be. especially when it is not the same as how i percieve myself. it tells me (taken with a nice grain of salt) what i'm projecting and whether it meshes with what i want to be projecting.

One thing that I think you easily forget sometimes, as do I, is that the rest of the world doesn't live in the same excessively self-examined bubble that we do. So, while we have very intentionally come BACK to roles and identities that, on the outside, look very "traditional"…there's still a lot of our lesbian culture that rejects those roles…and they don't have the context to know that we've gone through all the lesbian-feminist-culture-identification that they have…and that EMBRACING labels like "butch" and "femme" feels very delicate, tender, fragile and vulnerable to us…because not only are we already alienated from a straight world that we don't fit into, but now we run the risk of alienating ourselves from the community that we thought was our home.

I want, like you, to believe that that bullshit doesn't exist in our community and that everyone else dissects this in the same obsessive way that we do. But I think perhaps they have lives or something. ;)

I think I need a disclaimer like that written on my forehead! These conversations are so important and so hard. I want to believe that there can be space where butch, femme and otherwise identified folks can be affirmed equally alongside people who eschew labels. But I haven't been able to find it or create it yet.

[Oh man, I so hear you there. Maybe that's the tattoo I should get! haha, just kidding. Well kinda.

Where that does get important to me, though, is in being clear that I am not attempting to make everybody conform to what I believe, not trying to get everyone to pick a label, not trying to invalidate the experience or choice of rejecting labels. That feels so important to make clear, but it still feels like I get a lot of comments from people needing me to clarify that every time I attempt to discuss how butch & femme are valid choices. - ss]

An ex of mine—(who probably still checks her referrer logs and will probably see this, so if you're reading this right now, sev, hi!)—has lots to say about the usefulness of labels and the purposes they serve. One of my favorite things ever that she said, and much better than I ever could, is this:

"Labels, for at least some of us who embrace them, aren't supposed to be all-encompassing, strictly defining, or perfectly describing. They're just labels, not definitions — like an opaque jar labeled "coffee," which doesn't say if it's beans or grounds or already-brewed or coffee-flavoured candy, if it's dark, light, weak, strong, flavoured, sugared, fresh, or stale. It just says coffee, and if you want more details, you need to shake it, or open it, or taste it, or find the person who applied the label and ask them what they meant.

"Why bother with labels at all, then? If they are such a poor approximation of who I really am, why do I use them? For me, labels are necessary because my sexuality is both personal and political. In the personal realm, I want my friends and lovers to know more about me than just what can be conveyed with a label. However, it is also important to me that I be visible as a non-mainstream citizen; I want people to remember that people like me exist. For this, I find simple, one-word labels to be useful. And, hopefully, some of these people who encounter a label they don't understand will stick around, ask questions, and get to know me."

So. Yeah. What she said.

Maybe some of them are "holding back" for good reasons, not because of mis-perceptions about those identities. I know I find parts of the butch/femme dynamic extremely attractive both personally and sexually, and there is an element of the butch/femme in my relationship, but I would feel extremely constricted if I had to be the femme to her butch 100% of the time. Some days I'm the femme to her butch and and sometimes we're both feeling a little butchy and some days I'm the apple to her pear or she's the strong to my scared or to the scratchy to my soft.

I'm not saying that gender roles are static. But I think most of us would agree that some people find a better fit in these roles than others. Sometimes it's a matter of making your fit, but sometimes it's not.

I love the way you write about your own gender journey, and I understand that the finding of the particular gender skin you inhabit has been so fantastic for you that you want to share it on every level. I love the enthusiasm, but sometimes it sounds a bit like gender proselytizing. Maybe that's what other people were reacting to in the last post as well.

[ I agree - some people want to adopt these identities, some people don't. Some people find a better fit, as you said. Either way, it's a-okay with me, every time. I am not trying to push anyone into an identity, and I am not trying to say "wait until you discover how great it feels to clique up." Absolutely not.

I can understand that it sounds a little like gender proselytizing, but that is never my intention. There are many, many ways to play with gender, and just because I found one particular way that works for me - for now - doesn't mean that I think everyone needs to do it the same way that I do. I'm not sure how I can make it more clear that that is NOT what I am trying to do. I'm really trying to actively avoid gender proselytizing. Maybe I really do need a disclaimer at the beginning of posts like these. - ss ]