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	<title>Comments on: gender frustrations and clarifications</title>
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	<link>http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/05/gender-frustrations-and-clarifications/</link>
	<description>The sex, gender, and relationship adventures of a kinky queer butch top</description>
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		<title>By: what happened in may</title>
		<link>http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/05/gender-frustrations-and-clarifications/comment-page-1/#comment-2938</link>
		<dc:creator>what happened in may</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sugarbutch.net/?p=677#comment-2938</guid>
		<description>[...] I posted gender frustrations and clarifications about my response to those two posts, and some round-up thoughts on onward &amp; upward, gender [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I posted gender frustrations and clarifications about my response to those two posts, and some round-up thoughts on onward &amp; upward, gender [...]</p>
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		<title>By: whatsername</title>
		<link>http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/05/gender-frustrations-and-clarifications/comment-page-1/#comment-2930</link>
		<dc:creator>whatsername</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 20:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sugarbutch.net/?p=677#comment-2930</guid>
		<description>Maybe you should turn comments off to those posts... 
 
But in the end, people&#039;s experiences are their own, and they should talk about them on their blogs, that&#039;s what they&#039;re for. 
 
People can be really narcissistic sometimes. : </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe you should turn comments off to those posts&#8230;</p>
<p>But in the end, people&#039;s experiences are their own, and they should talk about them on their blogs, that&#039;s what they&#039;re for.</p>
<p>People can be really narcissistic sometimes. :</p>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/05/gender-frustrations-and-clarifications/comment-page-1/#comment-2919</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 19:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sugarbutch.net/?p=677#comment-2919</guid>
		<description>Since you wrote the two posts on misperceiving someone as femme or butch, I have been questioning myself -- was I one of those people?? I hope not. That would not be my intention.  
If I have ever offended anyone, please forgive me. I&#039;m a newbie, even after seven years. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you wrote the two posts on misperceiving someone as femme or butch, I have been questioning myself &#8212; was I one of those people?? I hope not. That would not be my intention. </p>
<p>If I have ever offended anyone, please forgive me. I&#039;m a newbie, even after seven years.</p>
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		<title>By: onward &#38; upward, gender explorers!</title>
		<link>http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/05/gender-frustrations-and-clarifications/comment-page-1/#comment-2913</link>
		<dc:creator>onward &#38; upward, gender explorers!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 16:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sugarbutch.net/?p=677#comment-2913</guid>
		<description>[...] on this site - I&#8217;m replying to the comments in the thread, too, with more information, so read the comments if you&#8217;d like to know more about my thoughts around this issue. You can also subscribe to the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on this site &#8211; I&#8217;m replying to the comments in the thread, too, with more information, so read the comments if you&#8217;d like to know more about my thoughts around this issue. You can also subscribe to the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Grace Chu</title>
		<link>http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/05/gender-frustrations-and-clarifications/comment-page-1/#comment-2905</link>
		<dc:creator>Grace Chu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 00:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sugarbutch.net/?p=677#comment-2905</guid>
		<description>(Quick followup: My last comment was a little ranty at times, and I hope it didn&#039;t disrupt the tenor of this blog. It was the product of frustration, that&#039;s all.) 
 
&lt;em&gt;[No no - no interruption at all, glad you told that story. I think your background of coming from the hard sciences and encountering the pomp of social science lingo is very common, someone else already referred to your comment as having a similar experience. No need to apologize - I&#039;m totally feelin&#039; ya on the frustration, and I think you&#039;re handling it beautifully! That shit is hard. - ss]&lt;/em&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Quick followup: My last comment was a little ranty at times, and I hope it didn&#039;t disrupt the tenor of this blog. It was the product of frustration, that&#039;s all.)</p>
<p><em>[No no - no interruption at all, glad you told that story. I think your background of coming from the hard sciences and encountering the pomp of social science lingo is very common, someone else already referred to your comment as having a similar experience. No need to apologize - I&#039;m totally feelin&#039; ya on the frustration, and I think you&#039;re handling it beautifully! That shit is hard. - ss]</em></p>
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		<title>By: Allison</title>
		<link>http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/05/gender-frustrations-and-clarifications/comment-page-1/#comment-2904</link>
		<dc:creator>Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 00:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sugarbutch.net/?p=677#comment-2904</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m fairly new lurking around here, and I&#039;ve never commented before, but I just have to say that reading your blog has been an enlightening experience for me (as well as welcome procrastination from finals) and I&#039;d be sad to see it change drastically.  I had never really had reason to consider the complexities of gender identity until this year (but oh how life gets interesting in unexpected ways, eh?), and I&#039;m a computer geek sort, so I&#039;ve been in the same boat as Grace above when it comes to getting lost in discussions.  It feels like the more I learn, the less I know for sure.  Being able to read one person&#039;s experiences has been a valuable way to do some learning and I&#039;m grateful that you&#039;ve been willing to share and teach.  That all of this learning has come with some fabulous butch eye candy...well, that&#039;s a welcome fringe benefit.   
 
As for the folks who&#039;ve been diving headlong into discussions without knowing what&#039;s come before, maybe having an FAQ section or a &quot;read this first&quot; post would eliminate some of the miscommunication.   
 
And of course, remember that any schmuck with internet access can fire off an angry or judgmental comment with very little thought.  Don&#039;t let them get you down, because there are plenty of other folks who really enjoy what you write. 
 
&lt;em&gt;[I&#039;m not really planning on changing things drastically - I think whatever change will happen is probably more about my own emotional space around the content, moreso than the actual content itself. I still want to write on queer/lesbian sex, gender, and relationships, with of course my own personal stories and smut mixed in. I don&#039;t plan on a total overhaul in any way, just trying to get to a space where I can better organize my thoughts and make things clearer, more consise.  
 
Thanks for echoing Grace&#039;s comments - I know what you mean, and I&#039;m really glad that this is a space where you don&#039;t feel like I&#039;m talking to some elite social theorist perspective that excludes anyone who doesn&#039;t use all those two-dollar long words. A FAQ is a great idea, and you&#039;re totlaly right about the angry/judgemental comments without thought - it bugs me that I let that stuff bug me, even, so that&#039;s part of what I&#039;m getting at when I&#039;m saying I&#039;m trying to re-think how I approach the writing here. I need more emotional/psychic walls so the frustrating things don&#039;t cut so deeply. Thanks for your note! - ss]&lt;/em&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m fairly new lurking around here, and I&#039;ve never commented before, but I just have to say that reading your blog has been an enlightening experience for me (as well as welcome procrastination from finals) and I&#039;d be sad to see it change drastically.  I had never really had reason to consider the complexities of gender identity until this year (but oh how life gets interesting in unexpected ways, eh?), and I&#039;m a computer geek sort, so I&#039;ve been in the same boat as Grace above when it comes to getting lost in discussions.  It feels like the more I learn, the less I know for sure.  Being able to read one person&#039;s experiences has been a valuable way to do some learning and I&#039;m grateful that you&#039;ve been willing to share and teach.  That all of this learning has come with some fabulous butch eye candy&#8230;well, that&#039;s a welcome fringe benefit.  </p>
<p>As for the folks who&#039;ve been diving headlong into discussions without knowing what&#039;s come before, maybe having an FAQ section or a &quot;read this first&quot; post would eliminate some of the miscommunication.  </p>
<p>And of course, remember that any schmuck with internet access can fire off an angry or judgmental comment with very little thought.  Don&#039;t let them get you down, because there are plenty of other folks who really enjoy what you write.</p>
<p><em>[I&#039;m not really planning on changing things drastically - I think whatever change will happen is probably more about my own emotional space around the content, moreso than the actual content itself. I still want to write on queer/lesbian sex, gender, and relationships, with of course my own personal stories and smut mixed in. I don&#039;t plan on a total overhaul in any way, just trying to get to a space where I can better organize my thoughts and make things clearer, more consise. </p>
<p>Thanks for echoing Grace&#039;s comments - I know what you mean, and I&#039;m really glad that this is a space where you don&#039;t feel like I&#039;m talking to some elite social theorist perspective that excludes anyone who doesn&#039;t use all those two-dollar long words. A FAQ is a great idea, and you&#039;re totlaly right about the angry/judgemental comments without thought - it bugs me that I let that stuff bug me, even, so that&#039;s part of what I&#039;m getting at when I&#039;m saying I&#039;m trying to re-think how I approach the writing here. I need more emotional/psychic walls so the frustrating things don&#039;t cut so deeply. Thanks for your note! - ss]</em></p>
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		<title>By: Zoe</title>
		<link>http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/05/gender-frustrations-and-clarifications/comment-page-1/#comment-2903</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 00:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sugarbutch.net/?p=677#comment-2903</guid>
		<description>I love your writing because it has helped me understand my own gender, as well as the gender of those around me, better.   
 
In my community, most people are either way into the butch/femme, or else totally about the andro expression.  You have helped me to see how ANY identity can be either limiting or liberating.  The expansiveness of an identity has as much to do with the wearer as the label. 
 
I find communicating in this way really difficult and feel that my comments may be misunderstood as more critical or debatey than I mean them when really I&#039;m just trying to process what you&#039;re saying.  I would like to take you out for a beer the next time that I&#039;m in New York, not to debate, but just to better understand. 
 
&lt;em&gt;[I have really appreciated your comments, actually - you were the one who first said &quot;proselytized&quot; (which I of course had a strong reaction to), but I felt like you were observing what was happening on the site, not so much that you were saying you thought that was what I was doing. And thank you - I agree, ANY identity can be limiting or liberating, I think. I will definitely take you up on that beer, that&#039;d be fun. Let me know when you&#039;re in my neck o&#039;the woods. - ss]&lt;/em&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love your writing because it has helped me understand my own gender, as well as the gender of those around me, better.  </p>
<p>In my community, most people are either way into the butch/femme, or else totally about the andro expression.  You have helped me to see how ANY identity can be either limiting or liberating.  The expansiveness of an identity has as much to do with the wearer as the label.</p>
<p>I find communicating in this way really difficult and feel that my comments may be misunderstood as more critical or debatey than I mean them when really I&#039;m just trying to process what you&#039;re saying.  I would like to take you out for a beer the next time that I&#039;m in New York, not to debate, but just to better understand.</p>
<p><em>[I have really appreciated your comments, actually - you were the one who first said &quot;proselytized&quot; (which I of course had a strong reaction to), but I felt like you were observing what was happening on the site, not so much that you were saying you thought that was what I was doing. And thank you - I agree, ANY identity can be limiting or liberating, I think. I will definitely take you up on that beer, that&#039;d be fun. Let me know when you&#039;re in my neck o&#039;the woods. - ss]</em></p>
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		<title>By: Grace Chu</title>
		<link>http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/05/gender-frustrations-and-clarifications/comment-page-1/#comment-2899</link>
		<dc:creator>Grace Chu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 21:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sugarbutch.net/?p=677#comment-2899</guid>
		<description>Heya, glad you noticed the craziness on our blog. I admire your restraint when dealing with people out to intentionally provoke you. I admit have no restraint whatsoever, which actually got me in trouble with my girlfriend, when I started swatting back at the Gender Theory Police. :) I have to remember: Be a good webmistress. Switzerland. Be like Switzerland. If you can&#039;t behave, step away from the keyboard. Step away. 
 
Anyway, what I can&#039;t stand is the Gender Theory Police (or any sort of postmodern theory police). If one likes studying those disciplines, and it makes him or her happy, by all means keep reading, keep learning. But ever since I was a freshman in college,  I&#039;ve run across quite a few people who take their studies so seriously that anyone who hasn&#039;t studied those disciplines is automatically deemed inferior, uneducated and unenlightened, and they treat others with the utmost condescension. It used to get to me, because as a science concentrator and computer geek, I couldn&#039;t comprehend a damn thing they were saying. And they would totally lord their knowledge over me in rude and condescending ways. I think they felt they were &quot;challenging&quot; me, but they were so smug that I really found it quite offensive. But I did assume that they were very intelligent... even though, looking back, those were the same people who were weeded out of freshman chem and physics and landed in the humanities - ok ok, that was low. I know. Forgive me. I&#039;m still fuming a little. Allow me just one snarky dig, will ya? :) 
 
Then I went to grad school (not in the sciences), had to basically learn a new kind of language, a new kind of thinking, with new rules. And then I  realized that those people who used to lord their postmodern mumbojumbo over people like me weren&#039;t smarter than me. They were just taught a certain way to think, speak, and write. If you are not given the tools or taught how to use the tools, you aren&#039;t going to do so well, but if you are given the tools and taught to use them, you can hammer away.  
 
So, to make a long story short, now I really have no patience for such pomposity and condescension, and that is why I snapped back on my blog. 
 
What does that have to do with your blog, you wonder? Because this is a place where people like me can learn about these disciplines in a safe and positive environment. I&#039;ve only taken a very miniscule amount of queer/gender theory, just enough to say the right things to get by (a quick survey before we got into how the law handles gender and sexual orientation), which was so little that it doesn&#039;t even count in my opinion.  Of course, I&#039;ll admit, I&#039;m skeptical sometimes, and I am pretty set in my ways and my worldview, but when I read your blog entries, I don&#039;t feel that I need to keep my guard up, if that makes any sense. 
 
Basically, usually when I wade into a space replete with queer theory/gender theory/other postmodern theory, I usually feel that I am in hostile territory. I don&#039;t feel like that here. 
 
&lt;em&gt;[Oh yes, I&#039;m familiar with those holier-than-thou theorists too - I also felt as thought I was deliberately made to feel stupid around them, and I absolutely do not want to be that kind of theorist. And thank you - I&#039;m glad this place does not feel like hostile territory. I am just as interested in everyday-average-jane opinions than in those folks who have been studying gender &amp; theory for many years. Both - all - experiences are valid in their own ways. And a big piece of what I&#039;m trying to do with base-level activism here is simply to bring these gender dynamics to everyone&#039;s attention so we play them out consciously, intentionally, in celebratory ways rather than ways that are restrictive and damaging. I appreciate that gracethespot has some good discussions going - good luck with those occasional snarky digs - I definitely do it too sometimes :) - ss]&lt;/em&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heya, glad you noticed the craziness on our blog. I admire your restraint when dealing with people out to intentionally provoke you. I admit have no restraint whatsoever, which actually got me in trouble with my girlfriend, when I started swatting back at the Gender Theory Police. :) I have to remember: Be a good webmistress. Switzerland. Be like Switzerland. If you can&#039;t behave, step away from the keyboard. Step away.</p>
<p>Anyway, what I can&#039;t stand is the Gender Theory Police (or any sort of postmodern theory police). If one likes studying those disciplines, and it makes him or her happy, by all means keep reading, keep learning. But ever since I was a freshman in college,  I&#039;ve run across quite a few people who take their studies so seriously that anyone who hasn&#039;t studied those disciplines is automatically deemed inferior, uneducated and unenlightened, and they treat others with the utmost condescension. It used to get to me, because as a science concentrator and computer geek, I couldn&#039;t comprehend a damn thing they were saying. And they would totally lord their knowledge over me in rude and condescending ways. I think they felt they were &quot;challenging&quot; me, but they were so smug that I really found it quite offensive. But I did assume that they were very intelligent&#8230; even though, looking back, those were the same people who were weeded out of freshman chem and physics and landed in the humanities &#8211; ok ok, that was low. I know. Forgive me. I&#039;m still fuming a little. Allow me just one snarky dig, will ya? :)</p>
<p>Then I went to grad school (not in the sciences), had to basically learn a new kind of language, a new kind of thinking, with new rules. And then I  realized that those people who used to lord their postmodern mumbojumbo over people like me weren&#039;t smarter than me. They were just taught a certain way to think, speak, and write. If you are not given the tools or taught how to use the tools, you aren&#039;t going to do so well, but if you are given the tools and taught to use them, you can hammer away. </p>
<p>So, to make a long story short, now I really have no patience for such pomposity and condescension, and that is why I snapped back on my blog.</p>
<p>What does that have to do with your blog, you wonder? Because this is a place where people like me can learn about these disciplines in a safe and positive environment. I&#039;ve only taken a very miniscule amount of queer/gender theory, just enough to say the right things to get by (a quick survey before we got into how the law handles gender and sexual orientation), which was so little that it doesn&#039;t even count in my opinion.  Of course, I&#039;ll admit, I&#039;m skeptical sometimes, and I am pretty set in my ways and my worldview, but when I read your blog entries, I don&#039;t feel that I need to keep my guard up, if that makes any sense.</p>
<p>Basically, usually when I wade into a space replete with queer theory/gender theory/other postmodern theory, I usually feel that I am in hostile territory. I don&#039;t feel like that here.</p>
<p><em>[Oh yes, I&#039;m familiar with those holier-than-thou theorists too - I also felt as thought I was deliberately made to feel stupid around them, and I absolutely do not want to be that kind of theorist. And thank you - I&#039;m glad this place does not feel like hostile territory. I am just as interested in everyday-average-jane opinions than in those folks who have been studying gender &amp; theory for many years. Both - all - experiences are valid in their own ways. And a big piece of what I&#039;m trying to do with base-level activism here is simply to bring these gender dynamics to everyone&#039;s attention so we play them out consciously, intentionally, in celebratory ways rather than ways that are restrictive and damaging. I appreciate that gracethespot has some good discussions going - good luck with those occasional snarky digs - I definitely do it too sometimes :) - ss]</em></p>
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		<title>By: lady brett</title>
		<link>http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/05/gender-frustrations-and-clarifications/comment-page-1/#comment-2895</link>
		<dc:creator>lady brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 14:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sugarbutch.net/?p=677#comment-2895</guid>
		<description>yes! what everyone already said! ;) 
 
and, i hope you figure out your way forward soon.  i&#039;m really curious to see what comes next. in general because i always like your writing, but in specific i&#039;m excited to see what happens when you delve deeper; what is it that comes after &quot;gender 101&quot;? 
 
thanks for what you do, f&#039;real =) 
 
&lt;em&gt;[Aw thank you - I so appreciate your contribution to these conversations, I learn a lot from you &amp; your stories. I&#039;m not sure what comes after Gender 101 - Gender 102, I guess! But meanwhile, I think one of my ways forward is actually by going back to the Gender 101 topics and refining them, articulating them, really building a strong base that I can refer to when questions and conflicts like these come up. We&#039;ll see though - not sure exactly how that looks yet. - ss]&lt;/em&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes! what everyone already said! ;)</p>
<p>and, i hope you figure out your way forward soon.  i&#039;m really curious to see what comes next. in general because i always like your writing, but in specific i&#039;m excited to see what happens when you delve deeper; what is it that comes after &quot;gender 101&quot;?</p>
<p>thanks for what you do, f&#039;real =)</p>
<p><em>[Aw thank you - I so appreciate your contribution to these conversations, I learn a lot from you &amp; your stories. I&#039;m not sure what comes after Gender 101 - Gender 102, I guess! But meanwhile, I think one of my ways forward is actually by going back to the Gender 101 topics and refining them, articulating them, really building a strong base that I can refer to when questions and conflicts like these come up. We&#039;ll see though - not sure exactly how that looks yet. - ss]</em></p>
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		<title>By: alison tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/05/gender-frustrations-and-clarifications/comment-page-1/#comment-2894</link>
		<dc:creator>alison tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 11:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sugarbutch.net/?p=677#comment-2894</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if the &quot;what about me&quot; emails are only related to your gender discussions. Because it seems that I often get a lot of &quot;what about me&quot; emails regardless of what I post. I had a post which featured an excerpt from a novel that I wrote. One character said, &quot;Women are phony. Deal with it.&quot; (This was in character. Trust me.) I received a slew of &quot;speak for yourself&quot; emails. Angry beyond angry. &quot;I am not phony. How dare you?&quot; 
 
I love your blog and hope that you won&#039;t let the &quot;what about me&quot;-ers keep you down. 
 
XXX, 
AT 
 
&lt;em&gt;[Good point. It&#039;s not just gender, it&#039;s anything. Blogging is a challenging medium that way ... so visible, so open to any random person who can hide behind a computer screen and say what they &quot;really&quot; think. And of course, I know I&#039;m not the only misunderstood writer or gender-forward activist out there. I guess this hiatus has been necessary to figure out how to go forward with occasional (deep-cutting) opposition. It&#039;s certainly a challenge at times. But I definitely won&#039;t stop writing alltogether, just still figuring out a useful way to go forward. - ss]&lt;/em&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t know if the &quot;what about me&quot; emails are only related to your gender discussions. Because it seems that I often get a lot of &quot;what about me&quot; emails regardless of what I post. I had a post which featured an excerpt from a novel that I wrote. One character said, &quot;Women are phony. Deal with it.&quot; (This was in character. Trust me.) I received a slew of &quot;speak for yourself&quot; emails. Angry beyond angry. &quot;I am not phony. How dare you?&quot;</p>
<p>I love your blog and hope that you won&#039;t let the &quot;what about me&quot;-ers keep you down.</p>
<p>XXX,</p>
<p>AT</p>
<p><em>[Good point. It&#039;s not just gender, it&#039;s anything. Blogging is a challenging medium that way ... so visible, so open to any random person who can hide behind a computer screen and say what they &quot;really&quot; think. And of course, I know I&#039;m not the only misunderstood writer or gender-forward activist out there. I guess this hiatus has been necessary to figure out how to go forward with occasional (deep-cutting) opposition. It&#039;s certainly a challenge at times. But I definitely won&#039;t stop writing alltogether, just still figuring out a useful way to go forward. - ss]</em></p>
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