Comments on: passing, privilege, & butch/femme http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/ The sex, gender, and relationship adventures of a kinky queer butch top Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:09:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Kathrin http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/comment-page-1/#comment-8811 Kathrin Fri, 04 Sep 2009 18:23:37 +0000 http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/#comment-8811 I know that I am a few years late and more than a dollar short with my response, but.....here goes. People often assume that I am straight because I don't fit their stereotype. I probably don't live in the most queer/PoC friendly part of Philadelphia (but I do love my 12 x 12 ft closet) and I often get questions about my bumper stickers. Marriage Equality Equal Rights not Special Rights A few weeks ago my downstairs woman's son asked me out. His response to my telling him I am queer... "naww dawg" This morning another woman in my complex asked me if I believed in the number stickers on my car and how such a pretty girl like me could be gay. I often balk at people who say that being able to pass as straight is a privilege. I think passing sometimes makes it a bit harder to fully be, be who I am. On some level I think that is just as relevant for those who identify as butch. We are constantly bombarded with labels and boxes, and are constrained by people's misconceptions and stereotypes of what we should and shouldn't do, act like or say. I feel like a bit of a voyeur, but I am really enjoying this extremely thought provoking space you have created. I know that I am a few years late and more than a dollar short with my response, but…..here goes.

People often assume that I am straight because I don’t fit their stereotype. I probably don’t live in the most queer/PoC friendly part of Philadelphia (but I do love my 12 x 12 ft closet) and I often get questions about my bumper stickers.

Marriage Equality
Equal Rights not Special Rights

A few weeks ago my downstairs woman’s son asked me out. His response to my telling him I am queer… “naww dawg”

This morning another woman in my complex asked me if I believed in the number stickers on my car and how such a pretty girl like me could be gay.

I often balk at people who say that being able to pass as straight is a privilege. I think passing sometimes makes it a bit harder to fully be, be who I am.

On some level I think that is just as relevant for those who identify as butch. We are constantly bombarded with labels and boxes, and are constrained by people’s misconceptions and stereotypes of what we should and shouldn’t do, act like or say.

I feel like a bit of a voyeur, but I am really enjoying this extremely thought provoking space you have created.

]]> By: what happened in February http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/comment-page-1/#comment-1857 what happened in February Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:41:07 +0000 http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/#comment-1857 [...] Passing, privilege, & butch/femme: Yes, passing is sometimes a privilege, but not always. Just like my visibility is sometimes a privilege, but not always. Tell me about times it was a privilege for you, and times it wasn’t, and then ask me about my stories, too. Tell me what it’s like to walk in your shoes. Let me learn from your experience. It’s hard sometimes to be a queer in this heterodominant society, and it’s hard to be a butch or femme in a lesbian community rooted in androgyny and which associates gender oppression with gender expression. […] Can’t we share this burdon? Can’t we pass this weight around, let it be a little lighter between us? I mean, I know I’m a hippie-feminist-do-gooder-pacifist and all, but I believe in the power of community, deeply. [...] [...] Passing, privilege, & butch/femme: Yes, passing is sometimes a privilege, but not always. Just like my visibility is sometimes a privilege, but not always. Tell me about times it was a privilege for you, and times it wasn’t, and then ask me about my stories, too. Tell me what it’s like to walk in your shoes. Let me learn from your experience. It’s hard sometimes to be a queer in this heterodominant society, and it’s hard to be a butch or femme in a lesbian community rooted in androgyny and which associates gender oppression with gender expression. […] Can’t we share this burdon? Can’t we pass this weight around, let it be a little lighter between us? I mean, I know I’m a hippie-feminist-do-gooder-pacifist and all, but I believe in the power of community, deeply. [...]

]]> By: “you don’t have to prove your manhood to me constantly” « “Don’t let’s talk.” http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/comment-page-1/#comment-1741 “you don’t have to prove your manhood to me constantly” « “Don’t let’s talk.” Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:07:40 +0000 http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/#comment-1741 [...] snarky initial response: this stuff drives me crazy, much like what you were talking about in your last butch/femme post (edit: upon looking it up, it wasn’t the last one, but a previous one in response to Belle). [...] [...] snarky initial response: this stuff drives me crazy, much like what you were talking about in your last butch/femme post (edit: upon looking it up, it wasn’t the last one, but a previous one in response to Belle). [...]

]]> By: Downsides of dressing down « extracts: absorption, distillation, expression http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/comment-page-1/#comment-1583 Downsides of dressing down « extracts: absorption, distillation, expression Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:36:00 +0000 http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/#comment-1583 [...] down a bit, but my sex life with my partner did too.” (found in Dosia’s comment on Sugarbutch Chronicles - scroll [...] [...] down a bit, but my sex life with my partner did too.” (found in Dosia’s comment on Sugarbutch Chronicles – scroll [...]

]]> By: Femmenista http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/comment-page-1/#comment-1562 Femmenista Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:58:07 +0000 http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/#comment-1562 Really appreciated this post, as well as the one that followed it. Also loved what Jan had to say....loving our community, standing together. Wanted to share what I feel is one of the most powerful quotes from my favorite author/activist/feminist, Audre Lorde..... “There is no hierarchy of oppression…I know I cannot afford the luxury of fighting one form of oppression only. I cannot afford to believe that, freedom from intolerance is the right of only one particular group. And I cannot afford to choose between the fronts upon which I must battle these forces of discrimination, wherever they appear to destroy me, it will not be long before they appear to destroy you…” <em>[Excellent quote, thank you! - ss]</em> Really appreciated this post, as well as the one that followed it. Also loved what Jan had to say….loving our community, standing together.

Wanted to share what I feel is one of the most powerful quotes from my favorite author/activist/feminist, Audre Lorde…..

“There is no hierarchy of oppression…I know I cannot afford the luxury of fighting one form of oppression only. I cannot afford to believe that, freedom from intolerance is the right of only one particular group. And I cannot afford to choose between the fronts upon which I must battle these forces of discrimination, wherever they appear to destroy me, it will not be long before they appear to destroy you…”

[Excellent quote, thank you! - ss]

]]> By: Dosia http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/comment-page-1/#comment-1542 Dosia Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:57:39 +0000 http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/#comment-1542 Hiya, I'm new to your blog (due to the blog awards -- good luck!) but I want to thank you for writing what you did. I'm a femme, truly through no choice but it's just the way I am. And I endure so much harassment from men -- they look at me, they flirt with me, they treat me automatically like I'm there for their pleasure. If I try to be quiet and hang back in a situation, it only seems to egg them on. I stopped dressing sexy and cute and the attention toned down a bit, but my sex life with my partner did too. And I say, why do I have to be trapped in this crazy world? Why doesn't my wedding ring mean "hands off" to anyone, male or female? (though of course if a smokin' hot butch came up to me and flirted, I'd be all kinds of appreciative -- but they all think I'm straight...!) Why does being sexy for my spouse mean being "available" for everyone else, too? I would change, but doesn't that mean abandoning my true self? The stress is unbelievable, and the effect is that I actively avoid ever speaking to straight men directly. Not what I'd call a privilege! Hiya, I'm new to your blog (due to the blog awards — good luck!) but I want to thank you for writing what you did. I'm a femme, truly through no choice but it's just the way I am. And I endure so much harassment from men — they look at me, they flirt with me, they treat me automatically like I'm there for their pleasure. If I try to be quiet and hang back in a situation, it only seems to egg them on. I stopped dressing sexy and cute and the attention toned down a bit, but my sex life with my partner did too.

And I say, why do I have to be trapped in this crazy world? Why doesn't my wedding ring mean "hands off" to anyone, male or female? (though of course if a smokin' hot butch came up to me and flirted, I'd be all kinds of appreciative — but they all think I'm straight…!) Why does being sexy for my spouse mean being "available" for everyone else, too? I would change, but doesn't that mean abandoning my true self? The stress is unbelievable, and the effect is that I actively avoid ever speaking to straight men directly. Not what I'd call a privilege!

]]> By: Jan http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/comment-page-1/#comment-1541 Jan Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:43:54 +0000 http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/#comment-1541 I love our community. I am attracted to soft butches. Does there have to be anything beyond those two statements? Let the rest of the world eat at itself. We should stand together. Jan I love our community.

I am attracted to soft butches.

Does there have to be anything beyond those two statements? Let the rest of the world eat at itself. We should stand together.

Jan

]]> By: green-eyed girl http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/comment-page-1/#comment-1535 green-eyed girl Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:51:00 +0000 http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/#comment-1535 Thank you Sinclair, I love that you are elaborating on this topic. I feel invisible in the lesbian community because I am not seen for who I am. I was so uncomfortable the first time I walked into Henrietta's. I felt like I was being alienated just because I look straight. That said, I know how privileged I am for simply looking like I do. I have complete respect for butches who have to deal with the bullshit from close-minded people. I just had a hard time with the realization that butches would take out their frustration on the femmes who love them. It did not make any sense to me. Thank you Sinclair, I love that you are elaborating on this topic.

I feel invisible in the lesbian community because I am not seen for who I am. I was so uncomfortable the first time I walked into Henrietta's. I felt like I was being alienated just because I look straight.

That said, I know how privileged I am for simply looking like I do. I have complete respect for butches who have to deal with the bullshit from close-minded people.

I just had a hard time with the realization that butches would take out their frustration on the femmes who love them. It did not make any sense to me.

]]> By: dylan http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/comment-page-1/#comment-1534 dylan Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:36:05 +0000 http://www.sugarbutch.net/2008/02/passing-privilege-butchfemme/#comment-1534 Thank you for writing this Sinclair. These were exactly my thoughts when I read the post as well. I think that people who are picked on often come to pick upon the very people who will/can/do love them the most. It's very sad and all too common in butch/femme relationships. I don't think any one oppression is worse than another... as long as someone I love is hurting, I'm hurting too. As far as butch training, I think I did pick up on things from other butches, imitate them until I could make them my own... I grew up as a tomboy but I didn't feel trained, I don't treat femmes like that, I don't think it's OK to cultivate a masculinity that hurts and oppresses others. I think the true training came from my deep love for my mother and from loving women, all the mistakes I made and still make, and all the lessons I learned as a result. Thank you for writing this Sinclair. These were exactly my thoughts when I read the post as well. I think that people who are picked on often come to pick upon the very people who will/can/do love them the most. It's very sad and all too common in butch/femme relationships. I don't think any one oppression is worse than another… as long as someone I love is hurting, I'm hurting too.

As far as butch training, I think I did pick up on things from other butches, imitate them until I could make them my own… I grew up as a tomboy but I didn't feel trained, I don't treat femmes like that, I don't think it's OK to cultivate a masculinity that hurts and oppresses others. I think the true training came from my deep love for my mother and from loving women, all the mistakes I made and still make, and all the lessons I learned as a result.

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