Comments on: femmes as a trans identity

By: About “femme” « Traningrad

About “femme” « Traningrad — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:52:21 +0000

[...] term “female-to-femme” that I have seen used sometimes (see femmes as trans identity on Sugarbutch Chronicles) also goes in this sense: there is a transition to “go [...]

By: the term “transmasculine”

the term “transmasculine” — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:07:41 +0000

[...] imagine the idea of butch as a trans identity is not so hard to grasp, and I’ve written about femme as a trans identity. The inclusion of the word “trans” as part of it feels touchy to me, because while I do [...]

By: Ms. Avarice

Ms. Avarice — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:20:00 +0000

FTF is now available for purchase, apparently? but it's like $200. While I'm tempted to just buy it, I really can't justify the purchase just for me alone. Except that I wonder how long it will be for purchase? It's my inner librarian telling me to put it in the "archives" (a bookshelf which has zero room left on it!)

By: sinclair sexsmith

sinclair sexsmith — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 13:05:00 +0000

cat: oh, one more thing: I totally dig what you said about the "natural" link between femaleness and femininity, and seeing femme, therefore, as a trans category. But you're also right that if we make the trans box so big that we all fit in it, then what's the box for? Still, I think femme-as-trans is a really interesting argument, and I think there's more to it than just gender policing and femininity as a choice. I'm gonna have to think about it more though, and see what else I can articulate.

By: sinclair sexsmith

sinclair sexsmith — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 13:02:00 +0000

cat: Thanks for clarifying! I totally agree that the difference between femme and feminine, queer femme women and straight feminine women, is gender, not orientation – but what is that difference in gender? That's what I'm struggling in articulating. The only thing I can put my finger on so far is that the seemingly same things – earrings, lipstick, skirts, heels – are used to attract different genders, so are therefore different. But then, what about femmes who primarily are attracted to, date, and partner with other femmes, verses femmes who partner with trans men, vs femmes who date all over the gender galaxy? Are those differences in types of femme gender, too? For example. We should do an experiment – get the same outfit, and put it on two different women, one queer, one straight. How does that change things? How do they wear it differently? I'm sure context would make a difference, too – standing in the street vs at a bar vs at home – there are so many factors!This is really hard to pinpoint. Thanks for the ideas & further conversation … I will definitely be writing more on it soon.

By: cat

cat — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:07:00 +0000

Sinclair, no, you didn't come across as saying femme=weak. I was referring more to what other commenters had said. And I agree about the patriarchy bit.---But to get back to your original posting (and the film "FtF"): On some level, the female-to-femme idea makes a lot of sense to me, most of all because it implies a conscious choice for femmeness/female femininity rather than either assuming a "natural" link between femaleness and femininity or assuming we're being patriarchally brainwashed. Still, I often hesitate to use the term transgender for that particular transition, mostly because I don't see the political use of making the trans* box so big that just about every human being who has ever suffered gender policing (i.e. all of us) fits in there.I do feel, think and believe, however, that what makes femmes different from straight women is about gender, not simply about sexual orientation/preferences (as if the two were separable anyway). But I still haven't found the words to describe how exactly. So I'll be looking out for what else you might have to say on this topic (and I'll keep looking for my own words, too).

By: sinclair sexsmith

sinclair sexsmith — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:26:00 +0000

hi cat! thanks for commenting. I hope it doesn't seem like I'm equating femme with weak at all. I don't have any presumption about the weak-strong hierarchies within gender expressions. I'd venture a guess to say that "feminine is weaker than masculine" has to do with the gender roles within our culture, and a general patriarchal social hierarchy that dictates that women need protecting by men because of their general inferiority and weakness. feminism and the women's liberation movement for the last hundred years has definitely done work to combat that, but it's still not eradicated. guess that's my two cents version of that. :)

By: cat

cat — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:39:00 +0000

I never understood why on earth feminine should equal weak (or at least weaker-than-masculine). My femininity has never felt like a weakness to me, especially not since my femininity turned into femmeness (after a phase of baby-dyke anti-feminine feminism, admittedly) ten years ago (yes, I'm happily over 30).And femme certainly does not equal weak at all. On the contrary, to me femme has always meant feminine + queer + tough. (Now please don't tell me that femme submissives or shy femmes or femmes who have no idea how to handle electrical power tools are not tough. They/we are. It's just a different kind of tough.)Oh, and hi. New reader, first-time comment. Will check back and say more later.

By: Ms. Avarice

Ms. Avarice — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:26:00 +0000

I think this is largely how I think about femme. But the comment I tried writing earlier got too long to be polite. I just have to write a post about it!

By: lady brett

lady brett — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:55:00 +0000

that looks cool and interesting.toungue-tied: i recently got in trouble for calling a friend feminine. i got out of it, but it took a lot of explaining that i think of feminine as not the same as girly, and as a sort of power.also, i think that you have to be somewhere comfortable before you can just be, and for some people getting to that point takes a lot of this discussion and processing.and i love the analogy =)